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Forum:Damage x8?
I have a question about game/skill mechanics. If Mordecai has Gun Crazy and fires 2 shots, with a double repeater, then Relentless procs with 100% damage. How does this actually work? *What procs first and, more importantly, does this combo do x8 damage? (x2 from the double repeater, x2 from Gun Crazy, and x2 from Relentless). The Relentless page implies x4 damage from a pistol (not tested). The Gun Crazy skill states that it is double damage from any gun bullets that hit (land in the same place). Would that, in fact, give x8 damage to a repeater that does double damage as its base (x2), assuming all bullets hit? I'm a newb at gun tech so speak slowly... 12:23, February 28, 2011 (UTC) Comments, Information, Wild speculation For starters, Gun Crazy only has 40% chance to proc at level 5, and for relentless, it always procs 25% of the time (for 100% damage at level 5). Double makes you fire 2 rounds per shot. Gun Crazy has a chance to double the amount of bullets coming out of the barrel per shot (x2 -> x4). Relentless will add +100% damage when it procs. Provided both these effects proc at the same time, then yeah, you get about x4, +100% damage. Keep in mind that +100% damage ≠ ×2 damage. In particular, depending on your mods/proficiency, the extra +100% damage will may not be as impressive as it sounds (400% damage -> 500% damage is not ×2). Happypal 12:56, February 28, 2011 (UTC) :Yes, I am assuming that they both proc, regardless of how many points (other than the +100% in Relentless, as I am keeping the math simple as possible). From what you say, the 100% then has a modifier due to other factors? Or are you eluding to a mathematical formula? 13:12, February 28, 2011 (UTC) Ahh, I get it. The =/= thing threw me off (thanks for clarifying with the above symbol). 400% +100% = 500%. Thanks. 13:18, February 28, 2011 (UTC) We should include this (somehow) on the Relentless page. : Perhaps on its talk page, since the relationship between the two talents is not simple. I found it more straightforward to remove the original anon-IP-authored misinformation on the main page. Daemmerung 14:39, February 28, 2011 (UTC) snarkiness That Relentless "strategy" note is weak. Daemmerung 13:09, February 28, 2011 (UTC) No one said anything about "strategy" at all. Please clarify. 13:15, February 28, 2011 (UTC) : The section on the Relentless page, not you. Am composing something less snarky-- give me a moment. Daemmerung 13:18, February 28, 2011 (UTC) DPS usw. Sorry for the snarkiness. I get impatient when I read something like that Relentless page, and find that the clueless note was added by some anon IP a year ago. I prefer to evaluate skills like this in terms of average performance: per trigger pull, per round expended, per magazine, per second. Fortunately tech pools aren't involved, so it's not as confusing as it otherwise might be.... In terms of probability, 5/5 Gun Crazy yields a 40% chance of any bullet firing generating a second "free" bullet immediately in the wake of the first one. That's a straightforward 80% 40% bonus to gross DPS, as the second bullet always hits if and where the first one does. (If the weapon is corrosive, I do not know whether the second bullet will benefit from the first bullet proc'ing corrosively. Certainly in a true burst, such as that of a Dahl Hornet, the later rounds in the burst do so benefit. The double repeaters of your scenario are never corrosive, however, so I guess we don't need to answer that right away.) 5/5 Relentless yields a 25% chance of any single bullet inflicting an additional +100% damage; you can think of this as averaging to an additional +25% damage for every shot on top of proficiency, etc. It's in the vicinity of Lilith's High Velocity bonus (6/5, in her case). That's an additive bonus taken together with numerous others, as Happypal states; you can't just multiply it like you could the Gun Crazy bonus. A repeater with the Double accessory empties its magazine twice as quickly as it would without the accessory. You're shooting twice as quickly, but you're not getting any more shots out of a magazine than you would otherwise, or any more damage per bullet spent. It's just like two quick trigger pulls. Daemmerung 13:45, February 28, 2011 (UTC) OK... That is alot of info, and I only proof read it. What is your thoughts on Anarchy? The reason I am asking is because it is my favorite gun. 13:54, February 28, 2011 (UTC) :5/5 Gun Crazy yields provides "a straightforward 40% bonus to gross DPS". Happypal 13:57, February 28, 2011 (UTC) Happy is definately right on that one... 13:59, February 28, 2011 (UTC) : Misstatements are so much more effective in boldface, don't you agree?? Yeah, "bonus" wasn't the word I wanted. Thanks. Daemmerung 14:01, February 28, 2011 (UTC) : P.S. Reciprocals are hard, let's go shopping. Malibu-Stacy Daemmerung 14:05, February 28, 2011 (UTC) I am not Ken my friend... So, what you are saying is that a double repeater is a waste? Just trying to clarify. 14:13, February 28, 2011 (UTC) I think that Anarchy + Relentless = ridiculous bullet hose. And a double repeater isn't a waste at all with aimed shots: you're putting two bullets where you would have put one. Double on Athena's Wisdom is just amazing. Now, a Gemini, that's a waste. Daemmerung 14:17, February 28, 2011 (UTC) Thanks for the clarification. This is my first MORD character useing other than sniper (my second favorite weapon). 14:32, February 28, 2011 (UTC) Note Relentless combines with Killer & Gun Crazy, that's why combined with a Nemesis the damage is crazy.... 16:37, February 28, 2011 (UTC) Let us not forget that a Violator, Hornet, Firehawk and Mashers also have multi-projectile counts that get doubled when Guncrazy activates. Hornet only being burst fire and Violator being burst and x3 projectiles. Also a Firehawk withup to x6 proc with two bullets fired when activated. Mashers with the potential to fire 14 bullets when activated. Combine these skills with Tresspass and Gunslinger com with ammo regen and you have an almost unstoppable combo even though the hunter does not have a shield enhancing skill. 16:58, February 28, 2011 (UTC) Are you preaching the "Offense is the best Defense" thing again Veg? Kidding 08:27, March 1, 2011 (UTC) Yup... ;) 12:28, March 1, 2011 (UTC)